Chunky_Baby wrote:I hate it.
I hate the fact that the Black Legion is now "able to replicate this that and the other" that were once staples of the World Eaters, Emperor's Children etc.
Per the fiction and franchise history as I understand it, Black Legion, by definition, is supposed to have various Khorne, Slannesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle and undivided as well as unmarked units within its ranks. It also has Khorne Berserkers, Noise Marines, Plague Marines and Thousand sons units. Be mindful, these are units not legions.
Black Legion does not have all World Eater, Emporer's Children, Deathguard , etc units. These are specific legions with their own primarchs.
Per the fiction, Black Legion is supposed to have a hodgepodge of Marks and there are supposed to be heavy weapon teams, bikes, raptors, etc with marks of all of the gods within their ranks. Example: a Biker with the mark of Nurgle is not a plague marine on a bike. It's also not a Deathguard biker marine either. It's simply a CSM with a nurgle mark, but he absolutely is part of the Black Legion.
Abbaddon wears the marks of all the gods, because he's the guy that aligned all the powers. Abbaddon, as the right hand of Horus in the Heresy, was number 2 in charge during the Horus Heresy wars. Horus, as Warmaster, controlled all of the Primarchs - (both good and bad) - as well as all Chapters and Legions. In the post Heresy wars, Abaddon is promoted to Warmaster of all Chaos contingents, remenents, fleets and battleforces. Abaddon still commands the World Eater Legion, the Empoerer's Children Legion, etc... However, as Captain of the Black Legion (Abaddon's personal legion) it is made up of a hodge podge of units from all other legions as well as the Sons of Horus (formerly the Luna Wolves).
The World Eaters Legion has elitist units beyond that of Khorne Berserker infantry. Khorne Berserkers fight in many different legions, not just the World Eaters Legion. In the fiction, Iron Warriors have always included the Khorne Berserkers in their ranks for example.
So, for me, this codex accurately reflects the Black legion's composition by including the various units and maintaing a value in units mix, but REMOVING the individual daemonic gifts from all of the champions in the units. Thus the focus of balance has shifted from favored individuals to favored units. That alone was well done I'd say.
Totally dumbed down codex with no special doodads to differentiate armies, probably for the benefit of the 8 yr olds with too much of daddies money they are targeting.
I know where you are coming from on this one. The customization of characters is definitely gone. There are much more no-brainer choices. However, the customization is now available at a unit level instead of a character / champion level. When you have unit options of 5-20, characters that can augment an army, options to take dedicated LR transports for termy squads plus heavies, various marks that you can put on each of the units, I think you may underestimate just how much variety there is. Take each unit in the army codex and multiply 75% of them 6 potential marks (none, glory, 4 gods) then you have quite a few options.
Will the masses learn the 4 or 5 compositions that tend to be more formidable, sure, probably... but is this any different than it was? If I seen chaos at a tourny and expect them to be a contender, I knew it was going to either Iron Warriors, Emps kids, black legion with heavy khorne influence... and I knew what each of those armies would basically field.
Same goes for any of the lists. If you play enough, you learn what the basic 4 or 5 tourny worth comps look like.
The nice thing with chaos is that its nwo designed around unit quality, not character in the unit quality. Thus, you have more of a force, and less of hero hammer. That's not necessarily a bad thing as 40K moves more and more to an objective game and less and less of a pure victory points game.
I feel there is a valid strategy in quality of force, not just quality of models.
I will reserve my total disgust for the "ruinous powers" book they are bringing out, as this "might" bring back in the spcific legions and give them some love.
In the meantime though - I might experiment with a few games, but watch for exactly what I warned about previous to it debuting, which was that it would end up like Eldar armies.
No one in their right minds would play this codex in a fluffy way anymore, everyone is going to end up fielding maximum carnage with all the very best options.
I think this is the norm of a player community, not due to a given book's construct.
I've already heard from a friends playtest where he declared that even though they are not tgh 5 anymore, the ability for anyone to field 9 Obliterators is just sick.
Not against an IG, marine, or chaos army with an equal amount of lascannons. Not if the enemy army is Tau and they have a fair amount of jet packs moving from cover, firing, then moving back so Oblits can't see them. If the apposing chaos army has lash and pulls the obliterators out of position into the open, they can be streaded by predators and havok squads. I've already played with and against a list of 9 obliterators... there are options.
They carved up a Blood Angels army apparently, almost on their own.
This may sound odd coming from someone complaining about the army getting stronger - but to me, it's not just about "random model A" - it's about fluff and telling a story.
There are a host of factors with this kind of report. Was 25% terrain being used? Was there line of sight open everywhere or were LOS lanes blocked? Were the obliterators in cover or in bunkers? Did the BA force have the right comp to deal with the heavy infantry? etc, etc, etc... these are rhetorical questions. The point does remain though, there are several variables that go into a good / bad experience against a particular composition. Give it some time, I think you'll find that first impressions are not always as they initially seem.
Cheers,
Tac
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:20 pm
