Chaos Daemons

[Chunky_Baby]

Anyone got any rumours on how the new daemon codex is going to work out?

I don't have an accoutn on Warseer, and was kind of hoping that Wraith would post

I really want it not to suck... so much so - that I'm tempted to buy a special boxed set as I could use a Daemon army anyway.

I just don't want it to be crappy, and for me to be frankly embarrased about buying it.

The new Khornate models look lovely... I really want the Herald and the cavalry...

[Wraithlord]

Some quotes

Ok quick summary. Thanks to bakaneko, shebnar, mysterygilgamesh, dranthar and wiganultra for all these and loads of other people since i started editing this. I tried to make it a bit more organised, but mainly based it off dranthar's one, so it's mostly quotes. I changed quotes and stuff occasionaly so that they're grammatically better, but it's possible i might have misinterpreted them. I don't have any codecis with me so estimated points values might be a bit off. I wasn't sure how far i could go with saying points values, Bakaneko hints at most of them on page 24.

See rumour roundup for pics of models.

If any of this is wrong or I've missed anything could someone say.

HQ

Your army has to be led by a greater daemon, either a named special character one or not.

Bloodthirster
- very strong, best stats in the book, in assault phase he can Instant Kill a space marine character in close combat
- I4, S7
- Mortal Strike: Range 12 S7 AP 2 weapon (possibly a whip)
- when assaulting he gets S8
- has furious charge and 2+ inv save against psychic power and force weapon, wings and chaos armour.
- 5 attacks possibly WS10
- Costs like a land raider
- Plastic Model likely
- BS less than 5

Great Unclean One
- has feel no pain, immune to instant death, T6 I2 and slow and purposeful.
- Relatively bad compared to other GD
- has breath of chaos and aura of decay(see below)
- poisoned 2+ wounding attacks
- WS 6 and “1 more attack”
- Costs like a well tooled out falcon

Lord of change
- is very powerful: has a sort of force weapon, all the tzeentch gifts and shooting powers, he can shoot 3 times at 3 different target
- has 3+ Inv. save
- costs like a land raider
- probably BS5
- Weakest greater daemon statwise

Keeper of Secrets
- is weaker than a bloodthirster but has more attacks (possibly 6-7) and shoots a "Lash" like power
- can Hit and Run and has assault and defensive grenades, plus Fleet.
- Very good stats, the hightest initiative in the game (10 likely)
- Can shoot 2 times.
- has range 18" S4 AP 3 Assault 3 and the Pavane of Slaanesh (lash like power)
- costs like a great unclean one
- plastic model likely

Herald (2 for 1 slot)
- you can have Heralds of any combination of the gods you like (eg. Can have Nurgle and Tzeentch heralds in the same HQ)
- No Undivided Heralds
- Chariots are herald only and change the stats of the Herald. Causes herald to lose independent character status, unlike various steeds
- Has daemonic gift automatically, and can choose 3 options.

Nurgle Herald:
- Daemonic Gift: Plaguesword: not like the one in old chaos codex
- Feel no pain and slow and purposeful
- May ride palanquin of nurgle: +1A and +1W
Options:
- noxious touch: wound 2+ in HtH
- Cloud of flies: like having assault and defensive grenades.
- aura of decay: a S2 AP – autohitting shot in HtH to all model in 6" like CSM power
- breath of chaos: Assault 1, flamer template, wounds on 4+, no saves of any kind allowed, glances vehicles on 4+
- Unholy might: +1 strength
- Chaos icon

Slaneesh Herald:
- Daemonic gift: Rending claws and possibly aura/gaze of aquiescence
May have:
- Mount/Steed: +1A, move like cavalry
- Chariot: +5A, move like cavalry, furious charge
Options
- Chaos icon
- soporific musk: -1att one enemy in HtH
- Transfixing gaze
- Dance/Pavane of Slaanesh: lets you move an enemy unit or walker (within 24") d6+2", a walker or unit can only be targeted once per round and they can't be moved off the table or into CC
- Some more stuff not shown in WD (possibly pavane of slaanesh and/or beam of slaanesh)

Tzeentch Herald
Daemonic Gift: Daemonic Gaze - 18" S4 AP3 Assault 3
May take:
- Disc: +1A, jumppack
- Chariot: +1T, +2W, +3A, furious charge, 4+ armour save
Options:
- we are legion: it allows herald to shoot at two different target with different weapons
- Soul Devourer: Force Weapon
- Master of Sorcery: Can shoot 2 times with different weapons (i.e. monstrous creatures can shoot 3 times)
- Bolt of tzeentch: Str 9 AP 2 assault 1 24"
- Breath of chaos: Assault 1, flamer template, wounds on 4+, no saves of any kind allowed, glances vehicles on 4+
- Chaos icon
- Boon of mutation: turn enemy into spawn, like chaos power

Khorne Herald
Daemonic gift: hellblade
Furious Charge
May take:
- juggernaught: +1 S, T, W, A and 4+ armour save
- chariot: +1S, T; +2W; +3A; 3+ armour save
Options:
- Blessing of the blood God: 2+ inv save against psychic powers and force weapons
- Chaos armour: 3+ save (remnants of power armour)
Chaos icon
- Unholy might: +1 strength
- Fury of khorne: Rending
- Death strike: Whip attack, see bloodthirster


ELITE

Flamers
- Changed a lot
- A lot cheaper than before (marine + 33%)
- Shoot better than horrors
- One flamer can take bolt of change or breath of chaos
- Move like jump pack troops
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3
- BS4

Flesh hounds
- Much the same as before
- Worth their price
- Good at flanking
Special character: Keranak
- option: instrument of chaos
- has 3 heads

Fiends of Slaanesh
- have 2 wounds and are immune to instant death.
- they are beasts
- 4 rending attacks on the charge
- I5 and hit and run

Beast of nurgle
- are like very toxic, tough but slow spawn... (FNP and poisoned attack)
- can do a tremendous ammount of attacks (D6)
- costs over double a marine
- can take musician

TROOPS

- The troop choices are very cheap (not as an ork but cheap)
- One (or sometimes more) models may be upgraded with a gift.
- One can be upgraded to be a musician with an Instrument of Chaos which makes you win a melee fight by one wound if the result is a draw. Very cheap.

Daemonettes
- fleet and rending
- are the best choice not only for rending, but for their cost.
- 5-20 per unit
- cost less then Lesser Daemon in CSM codex (possibly same as a firewarrior)
- 3 attacks
- S3 T3

Bloodletters
- PW and FC
- cost a bit less then a Chaos space marine (possibly same as lesser daemon)
- no armour save
- S4, T4, WS5
- 5-20 per unit
- one Bloodletter may be given Rending, upgrading him like he were a Champion (his stats are unchanged).

Plaguebearers
- FNP, Posioned Weapons, Slow and Purposeful
- cost less then Lesser Daemon in CSM codex
- 5-20 per unit
- T5

Pink Horrors (w/special charcter)
- Special character (the Changeling)
- have access to one bolt of tzeentch or one breath of chaos
- cost less then Chaos space marines
- 5-20 per unit
- Shoot more than once per shooting phase(?)
- a "Horde of Horrors can be really competitive, if tooled up properly"
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3
- BS3

furies
- Count as FOC slot, but not towards mandatory troops choice
- They are cheap and can fly
- S4, T4, WS3, I3
- Cost like Sisters of Battle
- Kinda uninspiring

nurglings
- they cost like an ork
- S2, T2, I2, WS2
- they do not have FNP, only the Swarm rule
- 2 wounds
- squad size 4-7
- Count as FOC slot, but not towards mandatory troops choice

FAST ATTACK

Bloodcrushers
- 4+ armour save
- can take standard bearer and musician

Seekers of Slaanesh
- are mounted daemonettes not the SoC one
- they have daemonette stats plus 1 attack and are cavalry
- 4 attacks and rending
- can take standard bearer and musician
- cost like marines

Screamers
- are jetbikes, interesting choice with upgrade, suck without
- one screamer can take bolt of change or breath of chaos
- Warp fire: 18" S3 AP3 Assault 3
- BS2
- cost as much as a marine


HEAVY SUPPORT

Soulgrinder (modified Defiler)
- 2 close combat weapons, one Mawcannon (which can be ugraded) and a Reaper
- Is a walker
- Costs like a defiler
- 4 attacks and a “harvester” (possible same as reaper) built into one of its ccw.
- the Mawcannon has a 'Vomit' weapon profile which can be upgraded to 'Tongue' weapon or to 'Phlegm' weapon.
- not markable
- can take sword (possibly reaper/harvester?)
- AV 13 13 11
- BS3 and Fleet


Daemon Prince (very customizable choice)
- Daemon Prince Stat are lower then the CSM one, is cheaper, but can buy upgrade to become an HQ choice (or as good as one?)
- Can be more dangeruos in HtH than the CSM one (especially the nurgle one) or if marked Tzeentch can be a very good mobile fire base with 4+ inv.

Example Nurgle daemon prince
S6 T6 WS7 4A 4W wings - about 150 pts
Example Tzeentch daemon prince
no stat upgrades, bolt of tzeentch, wings, armour - about 165 pts

SPECIAL CHARACTERS

There are 3 special Greater Daemons (one for Nurgle, one For Tzeentch and one Undivided) and 4 Special Heralds (one for each God)

Nurgle Greater Daemon Character
- Kugath the plaguefather
- has two special rules: Blessing of Pus and nurgling infestation
- T6

Nurgle Herald Character
- Epidemius
- Rides a palanquin
- I3, T5, W3
- Slow and Purposeful, Feel no Pain
- Very potent CC radius attack
- "Improves daemon special rules as death toll rises"

Khorne(undivided?) Greater Daemon Character
- Skarbrand, The Exiled One
- Lacks wings and all Khorne related gifts
- His stats are buffed, compared to a normal Bloodthirster
- Burning Hatred: All units, friendly or foe, within 24" reroll close combat attacks
- Had his wings cut off

Khorne Herald Character
- Skulltaker
- WS7 S4 A4
- furious charge, rending, power weapon
- "Death incarnate to enemy characters"

Slaneesh Herald Character
- the Masque
- I7
- rending, hit & run, fleet
- Instrument of chaos - see troops
- special rule called the eternal dance and an inv save of 3+
- Eternal dance - can use pavane of slaanesh (lash power) 3(or 2?) times
- 3 human arms and a big **** off claw arm, posed kind lictory. Wields a staff with a mask at either end and changes it's personality depending on who it chooses to be.

Tzeentch Greater Daemon Character
- Fateweaver, Oracle of Tzeentch
- is a monstruos creature with 1 wound (possibly some strange rule)
- More expensive than normal LoC
- Decreased stats
- Either rerolls to hit and to wound rolls or auto wounds and auto hits
- Soul devourer (force weapon)

Tzeentch Herald Chracter
- Bluescribe
- BS4 and all tzeentch shooting powers
- Jump Infantry
- Squabble over second spell, have to roll to see what it will be

GENERAL RULES:

All Daemons have Invulnerable save, can be placed in deep strike and have immunity to instant death.

Tzeentch have +1 to all invulnerable saves (4+ for normal daemons, 3+ for greater daemons).

All codex entries (yes, even the Soulgrinder) are daemons.

They can't be included in Chaos Space Marines armies, they are an independent force.

A full God army can be made, the strength of the force varies for the chosen God (IMHO Mono-Tzeentch and Slaanesh are the strongest)


ICONS:
Daemons can be placed all in deep strike, and than enter in play at 6" from an icon and assault.
Before the game you divide your army into two halves and nominate the half you want to start with on the table and if you don't succeed rolling high enough with a d6, you start with the other half. The rest of the army has to be summoned to the table with icons.

Icons are available to:

Herald
Bloodletters
Daemonettes
Plaguebearers
Horrors
Bloodcrushers
Seekers
Daemon Prince

It's very expensive for troops (10 points less the then a lascannon to a Choosen CSM unit) but cheap for DP (like a flamer)


OTHER:
- no nurgle or tzeentch cavalry, the first have Daemon Beast and the second Screamers (that are considered jetbike)
- there are no psychic powers, only shooting weapons. This is one of the strongest things in the list
- there are no daemonic weapons for normal HQ, don't know for special one.
- Nugle sucks very bad. It's very tough but slow like hell and can go only in HtH to do some damage, but only GD and DP negates saves
- Nurgle DP is a must for all-Nurgle armies
- Virtually Tzeentch can deploy up to 17 (seventeen!) S9 AP2 Assault1 shots...
- Screamers will not have access to Icons, thus preventing daemon bomb.
- Things will get better for all things nurgle in 5th ed.
- Possibly entitled "Codex: Deamonic Legions"
- Spearhead coming out 26th april. 33 models and a codex.
- Specifically:
1 Codex/Armybook
10 Bloodletters
10 Daemonettes
5 Fleshhounds
1 Bloodcrusher
1 Beast of nurgle
1 Fiend of slaanesh
1 Epidemius
1 The Masque
1 Skulltaker
1 Keranak
1 Soulgrinder (only in the 40K one).

[Rayne]

Ive actually read a print copy, sent to the game store i frequent (IOG in Phoenix, AZ, had the store copy being passed around this saturday)

I can personally see this book breaking the game.

The entire army deepstrikes. Half just before the start of turn 1, after all infiltrators and scout moves (and Word in your Ear), the other half on a single reserve roll.

Expect this army to DS up to 9 beefed up Princes, and up to 2 GDs.

Nurgle is nearly unkillable. With the Tallytaker in play, every model any Nurgle unit kills gives a bonus to the ENTIRE army (nurgle or not). Bonuses include Poisoned Weapons hitting on 3+ instead of 4+, Feel no Pain on 3+ instead of 4+, and raising all daemon's weapon skills by 1.

Tzeench is also particularly nasty. Since daemons dont take psychic tests, dont expect the Aegis/Faith to give you a save, or Psychic hoods to affect them. Fateweaver looks like its going to be a Tzeench favorite.

Expect these two army types to dominate the tournament scene.

Khorne got neutered, and Slaanesh is tricksy. The Masque seems bad on paper, but with some tactics and positioning, she can be horrifying. And Slaanesh Princes are disgustingly overpowered, if you gift them right. Yes, they have a version of Lash.

[Chunky_Baby]

Can you elaborate why Khorne was neutered?

I hate the fact that it is a stand alone army too - I was thinking you'd be able to mix and match... seems a little stupid to me.

[Rayne]

It seems like they just got the short end of the stick hun. I dont remember any specifics, because its been over a week since ive read the book, but what i do remember, is that one of the Khorne special characters has a 50/50 chance of charging/assaulting friendly models near him in his bloodlust, The Khorne puppys just blow, unless you have karanak, then they just kinda blow. Bloodletters are acceptable, juggernaughts are too expensive for thier abilities, and they just dont have any special tricks or serious tactics other than "Deepstrike 1st turn, get shot because we dont have guns, Assault on turn 2, hope we survive to turn 3". Its a one-trick pony.

[Chunky_Baby]

You know it really doesn't surprise me at all.

I probably won't bother then, I might pick up the codex, but won't bother with the big army set.

[Wraithlord]

I don't know why but the daemon codex just doesn't interest me in the least. The models are nice but I have no desire to pick it up.

[Col_Stone]

Same here W.. i wish they had gone for a renegade guard/mutant horde 'dex instead..